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View Poll Results: If a new 1500 truck offered an auto trans option, which would you choose?
65RFE automatic (as standard) 3 5.36%
66RFE automatic (if it was a $250 option) 53 94.64%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 01-05-2013, 04:30 PM
TransEngineer TransEngineer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasmiser View Post
Hey transengineer,

Would a 66RFE play nice with a PCM on a 2012 1500 5.7l? I am looking into a engine/tranny swap for my 2006 Mega Cab, because I want add the MDS and vvt. So, I am wondering if the move to a 66RFE would be possible, or would i run into the same pre-'12 PCM issue you mentioned above.
While the solenoid module would not need to be changed, the other considerations still hold true. I'm not sure offhand whether the converter would be identical or not (probably is, but I'm not sure).

But the biggest issue would be the PCM. The gear ratios for the 66RFE are different from the 65RFE, so if you just hook it up as is, you will blow gear ratio error faults immediately (and continually). It would be unusable for that reason. And I don't know of any way to get the PCM reprogrammed to the new ratios.
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TransEngineer View Post
While the solenoid module would not need to be changed, the other considerations still hold true. I'm not sure offhand whether the converter would be identical or not (probably is, but I'm not sure).

But the biggest issue would be the PCM. The gear ratios for the 66RFE are different from the 65RFE, so if you just hook it up as is, you will blow gear ratio error faults immediately (and continually). It would be unusable for that reason. And I don't know of any way to get the PCM reprogrammed to the new ratios.
What about the ATS copilot. Would it help serve as a solution to the problem. I was thinking of adding the new 8speed in a few years?
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:35 AM
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You'd have to ask ATS. I don't know how the Co-Pilot modifies the trans controls, and whether you'd be able to modify the gear ratio values or not. I suspect not, but I really can't say for sure.
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  #24  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:18 PM
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Bringing this thread back up.... I'm looking into this very thing right now. First step it to see if the harness is the same. Second is converter mounting and 3rd controlling it. Since arrington can flash with OEM software now I don't think this is too far fetched.
Gonna try and locate a 66rfe now
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  #25  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TransEngineer View Post
Yes, the 66RFE does shift through all 6 gears in normal driving.

Swapping in a 66RFE (in a 2010-2011 truck) would require new PCM software to enable the correct shift pattern. And that creates a concern for keeping the software and hardware matched. Suppose you installed a 66RFE (with new PCM software). A year later, you go to your dealer for an oil change, and he "helpfully" updates your PCM to the latest level of software (for a 545RFE truck!!). So there are some issues with doing this.... but I'll see if any of my colleagues think it might be a possibility.
If your dealer installs the transmission it goes in your service file and will be added to your vehicle serial#... so I was told by my dealer back in 2011. In my case with an 09 it would void my lifetime warranty but who cares. The problem is the tcm is in the pcm...it is not a stand alone control like the 68RFE. So we have to figure a way to swap our pcm to a 2012 HD 2500 Hemi of the same model. The 545RFE/65RFE has a hp sucking gear ratio, it's garbage. The 66RFE are spread even and better appart and it's much stronger. Hell yeah I'd go for one in a heart beat! I've never checked but we need to find out if the harness is simular between either of the three. Possibly we may be able to use the 65RFE harness....just a thought....or hopefully even the 545. Then all we have to do is tune it respectively to accept the shift schedule (that would be on a wing and a prayer). Or worse case senerial swap out the pcm to the correct one.
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  #26  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TransEngineer View Post
I should also note that 66RFE transmissions use an extension (or 4x4 adapter) that are not compatible with 1500 models. So those would have to be swapped out (which can be done, the parts will interchange). But changing the extension/adapter may also change the rear geartrain end play, and if the end play winds up out of spec, it would be necessary to tear the trans down and change a selective spacer to adjust it.

I should also note that the solenoid module used in the 2012 (66RFE) transmissions is NOT backwards-compatible with 2010 and earlier model years, so you'd also have to swap out the solenoid pack.

Also, the torque converter now being used with the 66RFE is different from that used in 2011 and prior years. This is not a big deal (the new one would probably work fine), but for anyone trying to keep emissions legal (not likely a huge concern for anyone undertaking this!), the new converter could change the emissions performance.

So I guess things are never as simple as they seem at first. Sorry.....
I saw these transmissions side by side a while back. The converters are interchangable and the housing is exactly the same. Don't know about the 4x4 but my 2x2 is the same. I didn't get to see the harness or any wiring though. As far as emissions I don't see what that has to do with it but I repspect your findings. I don't think anyone would care about that if they plan on using a stall speed converter down the road anyway. Say in my case, (2009 RCSB Hemi ST) why can't I swap out the entire engine control system (pcm/tcm, it's all in one housing) from a 2012 HD 2500 Hemi ST....the same model except it would be RCLB? I even thought of taking the pcm appart and sperating the tcm. The 68rfe is supposed to be two separate units but it's been a while so I may be wrong. Plz don't give up looking into thisd....you started this now you have to finish. You are the first person I saw that has had any interest in rthis and you're a trans tech...help us!
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  #27  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasthemiram11 View Post
Bringing this thread back up.... I'm looking into this very thing right now. First step it to see if the harness is the same. Second is converter mounting and 3rd controlling it. Since arrington can flash with OEM software now I don't think this is too far fetched.
Gonna try and locate a 66rfe now
I've been looking off and on now for over a year. Like trans tec said they about 250 bucks more then a 545 and sell for 3700 if I'm remembering correctly. There are plenty of performance trans shops that have their own stand alone tcm units that may be able to tune these things. It ticks me off, FAST has had one for the Chevy units for some time but not for Chrysler. But there are others I saw, just have to search again. I'll put a stock one in mine right now, I'm ready...my truck is stock.
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:33 AM
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Yes, your best bet (in my partially uninformed opinion) would be to use a PCM from a 2500 5.7L truck (66RFE trans). At least that way, the trans controls would work correctly. But I'm not sure if the engine controls / emissions are similar enough (between 1500 and 2500) that the engine side of the 2500 PCM would work correctly in a 1500.

Biggest difference is that the 2500 does not have MDS (while the 1500 does). I compared the wiring connector pinouts for the NGC4A PCMs for 2012 MY 5.7L trucks (1500 with 65RFE versus 2500 with 66RFE). All of the connector pinouts are IDENTICAL, except the 2500 has "no connection" at the four (4) circuits that are used for the MDS solenoids in the 1500. Therefore, I suspect (but cannot guarantee!!) that using a 2500 PCM in a 1500 would work fine, except MDS would be disabled.

The MDS solenoids are controlled on the high (supply) side, so having no connection to the solenoid (from the PCM) should simply disable MDS. Normally, this would blow a host of faults (for cylinder deactivation performance, MDS solenoid circuit, etc.) but since you'd be using the 2500 PCM those faults should be deactivated (since the 2500 does not have MDS).

The big issue in my mind is that the VIN in the 2500 PCM will not match the one in your 1500. I don't know how all the module-level security works, but I suspect this could be a problem. Check with a knowledgeable dealer tech and ask them whether you could successfully install a 2500 PCM (new or used) into a 1500 truck.

On the trans hardware end, all the wiring and connections are the same. The 2WD extension IS different (the 2500 uses a larger diameter slip yoke), so you'll have to either swap in the old extension from your 65RFE (which should work) or change the propshaft slip yoke (which may be more of a challenge). The torque converter should actually be identical between a 5.7L 1500 (65RFE) and a 5.7L 2500 (66RFE), so that won't be a problem.

Good luck, and let us know if it all works out!
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  #29  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:36 AM
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I should have noted that the 4x4 adapter for the transfer case is ALSO different between 65RFE and 66RFE. Probably the drop angle for the transfer case is different (I'm not sure offhand), so you'll want to swap the 4x4 adapter, too.
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  #30  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:52 AM
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Josh, are you working on this project in Orlando? Or in Cocoa? I'd love a 66rfe in my truck, but suspect it'd be even MORE difficult getting the programming to work in the 4.7L than the hemi.
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