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  #71  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:06 AM
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On this forum there are likely over 10,000 members with 4th generation rams with a Hemi engine. In the last (and first) 4 years of the 4th gen Ram this 'issue' has never been the topic of discussion on the busiest Ram forum in the world.......this is the first we have heard of this.

2 things -

1) Thank You RamTech for sharing this 'inside' information with us. I for one am delighted beyond description when techs like you share this kind of information with enthusiasts like me on this Forum. It is especially comforting to know that Chrysler is actually looking at this.

2) 1500driver; I would not even consider this issue. It is not a 'new' vehicle issue and is not common in Rams. And since this is on the engineers table in Chrysler, if there is an issue they will have either a recall or RRT on this before you even have your truck broken in let alone enough miles to be in the danger zone. Enjoy your truck when you get it. They are a pleasure to own.
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  #72  
Old 11-25-2012, 03:00 AM
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2) 1500driver; I would not even consider this issue. It is not a 'new' vehicle issue and is not common in Rams. And since this is on the engineers table in Chrysler, if there is an issue they will have either a recall or RRT on this before you even have your truck broken in let alone enough miles to be in the danger zone. Enjoy your truck when you get it. They are a pleasure to own. [/QUOTE]

I couldnt of put it any better!
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  #73  
Old 11-25-2012, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfairkickazz93 View Post
2) 1500driver; I would not even consider this issue. It is not a 'new' vehicle issue and is not common in Rams. And since this is on the engineers table in Chrysler, if there is an issue they will have either a recall or RRT on this before you even have your truck broken in let alone enough miles to be in the danger zone. Enjoy your truck when you get it. They are a pleasure to own.
I couldnt of put it any better![/QUOTE]

X2 ^^^^^^^^. 1500driver. You should check out this thread. http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=112742.
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Last edited by RansRAM; 11-25-2012 at 10:43 AM.
  #74  
Old 11-26-2012, 04:00 PM
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I own a 2010 Challenger so I've been following the posts about the failures pretty close. It does seem to be limited to the Challenger and the auto 5.7. It also seems to be only the 2009 and 2010 model years. Someone on the Challenger Z fixed the problem them selves and documented it with pictures pretty well (his car was out of warranty).
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  #75  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:51 AM
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Default Here are some info I found.

Info on the Eagle 5.7L
Found this while I was mulling around on another site. Pretty nifty...

HemiSam

=========================================

"...needless to say, majority of the time was invested in the updates for the new hemi's, codenamed Eagle.

firstly, a lot has changed, we all knew about the variable cam timing, and i quoted the master tech earlier on that topic.


Quote:



all next generation 5.7L engines receive Variable camshaft timing, or VCT. if you are familiar with the system on the Viper 8.4L engine, the one on the 5.7L engine will look familiar. The PCM controls VCT based on a number of inputs. Included in these is an oil temperature sensor to help the PCM determine when to actuate the solenoid on the oil control valve. That is attached to the block behind the timing cover. The PCM operated the valve by means of pulse width modulated signals which can range from zero to 100%. when the pcm is changing cam phasing, pressurized oil flows from a passage in the block into the oil control valve. from there it is directed into one of the two passages in the camshaft number one bearing journal. the oil then flows to one side of the vanes in the camshaft phaser. oil on the other side of the vanes is exhausted via the other camshaft passage. at zero percent duty cycle, the valve directs oil to the advance dise of the vanes, which results in a fully advanced cam phaser. at 100% duty cycle, oil is directed to the retard side. this results in a timing of about 36 degrees BTDC. at 50% oil is directed to both sides, and maintains the current cam phaser position.




Its a very interesting design but apparently only designed to negate the use of the EGR valve. there is performance potential though.



The block has been revised to house the Oil control valve, a duty cycled solenoid placed in the block, facing the back side of the cam sprocket. three new oil passages were added to facilitate the cam phasing, and a much larger #1 cam journal is used as it also is used as an oil passage to the hydraulic cam phaser. the oil pump is new, a higher output than previous models, and is NOT compatible with the previous versions. chrysler said so, and i even tried on an 03 hemi. it will not work. the timing chain is different as well, colored links appear to be gone, replaced with lazer etched rectangles on the links. of course, number of links appears to have changed as well due to sprocket size differences too.


the timing chain tensioner is now a spring loaded piston, not the leaf spring powered tensioner as used before, the tensioner is no longer part of the thrust plate either.


for the most part, the crankshaft appears to be the same as previous versions, connecting rods look similar as well though some early models (like the one i "tested" on) had full floating wrist pins. sources said it was planned, but scrapped early, apparently early production versions made it, but are expeced to all be in the durango hybrid engines.

Pistons: for the most part, nothing ground breaking. shorter piston skirts, less dome, and now 1mm compression rings.

now for the useful stuff.
Cylinder heads. big changes here, new closed chamber heads have smaller chambers (duh) than previous engines , 66.3cc in fact vs 84.9cc. even smaller than the 6.1's with 73.0cc. bolting these on to a previous hemi without modification would result in nearly a 12:1 compression ratio. valves are slightly larger. intake is 2.05" vs 2.00". exhaust is the same. both valves have a longer stem though. new bee hive valve springs, identical on both intake and exhaust are now in use, and seem to mimic what we have been doing in using the 6.1 exhaust springs across all valves. pushrods have changed as well, they are now approximately 4mm longer, putting them very close in length to the 6.1's pushrods.



ports appear to have a 6.1 sized window on the intake side, as well as a 6.1 style D shape on the exhaust. a quick comparisson with a 6.1 exhaust manifold looks like it was nearly a perfect match.

tappets: i wouldnt normally cover this, but i actually made notes in class because of this. they have been revised for higher lift with proper MDS actuation. the stock cam lift now is approximately equal to that of the spartan/sparrow cams currently available. both of which are supposed to be the border line of MDS capacity. the new lifters do this constantly in factory form. further more, they are backwards compatible. they will drop right in to an older 5.7 (or any previous hemi built with MDS)

intake manifold: this is a gray area, as there are approximately 4 or 5 different manifolds available for use on the eagle. the trucks use an active intake version where as the cars do not. the active intake allows the ram to have 390 horsepower and 404 ft*lbs of torque by giving it short and long runners in the intake. a very cool design, but nothing groundbreaking, v6's have it as well.

these are the active intake, from the ram, durango (non hybrid) and aspen (non hybrid).

Exhaust manifolds. again, different depending on models, but seem to have a slight advantage over previous engines. looks like they spread a bit more, as well as clearer ports and possibly larger midpipes than the older hemi's."

Last edited by bluedodgeram; 11-27-2012 at 03:01 AM.
  #76  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:50 AM
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On the Challenger forum, there has been a lot of talk that the MDS is causing the problem. I'm not sure about that, as earlier cars had MDS and they aren't a problem. There is also thought that the VVT is the problem. I think that is part of the problem since the cam chain is a little smaller, there for weaker.

Just my opinion here, but its been brought out on other boards also, but the Challenger is showing the problems the most since it has unique tuning and gearing. At highway speed, around 70 mph, the timing chain is getting some harmonics going on with the MDS on, and the chain is bouncing or vibrating. This causes the tensioner to fail, taking out the timing chain, and causing some of the valves to hit pistons.
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  #77  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:58 PM
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The sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!
  #78  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by browndawg View Post
The sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe for you, but given the evidence and sources, I'd call it a heads up.
  #79  
Old 11-30-2012, 02:53 PM
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This is a very true warning. This is a constant topic of discussion on the challenger forums and has happened in in the 5.7 and 6.1. I have not heard of it happening in the new 6.4.
  #80  
Old 11-30-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamTech View Post
Maybe for you, but given the evidence and sources, I'd call it a heads up.
thanks for the heads up! whats your call on this ram tech, be proactive or sit and wait and lt warranty handle this if something occurs? tks again.
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