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Custom Dodge Ram Performance Mods - Engine - 3.6 Liter Pentastar V6 Discuss modifying your Dodge Ram with Performance Parts and Accessories!
Factory Spec: 3.6-liter V6 engine - 305 horsepower, 265 lb-ft of torque.


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  #31  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:43 AM
Chris65 Chris65 is offline
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snrusnak- I see we're on the same page.
but you have a slight wrong thinking...

Fact is, that the knock- sensor set the ignition point on the ping boarder, which means, it recognizes, when the gas mix ignites by it self through pressure and heat and not from the spark plug.
87 octane gas has a lower self- ignite point then 91 or 97 octane.
the thinking issue what the most people have is, that they think higher octane = more power. this is partially wrong.
in a normal engine like the dinosaur engines in the ram's, where the base goes centuries back, you will not see nothing. not in power increas and not in mpg.
the ram engines are pimped constructions from a forgotten time...technically.
A modern engine has a variable intake (the hemi has it since 2008 to get a better filling, similar to a 4V engine-which increases the compression in the cylinder and comes close to the critical point, where the variable ignition point can not go back far enough to prevent the gas from self- ignition, which makes higher octane necessary), double overhead camshaft, variable cam shaft, direct injection...just to name some of the most significan differences. These engines having a high grade of filling. they having compression from up to 14:1. these engines need premium gas.
and here is the point.
it is also fact- the higher the octane, the better the combustion because it is more controlled and the timing can be set more exact.
high compression makes the engines more efficient and also improve the emissions. and this is what it is all about. CO.
In europe for example you will not get the low octane gas anymore, because even with the old engines, with higher octane you will have better CO. In europe the cars getting taxed by kg CO/kilometer. the boarders are not reachable with regular gas.
the minimum Octane in europe is 95 octane. you do not get regular no more there.
the engine sizes there are very much smaller and every manufacturer has ~1.4l 3 cyl. turbo engines with 180 hp in the program. ford started this way with the new fusion, where such a small engine- ok-its a 4-cylinder- but with high efficiency- is built in. Eco boost they call it...
the ethanol is part of this emission reduction and how you said, the ethanol does not effect the octane.
but it does effect the burning temperature which can damage the older engines.
Technically is high octane on a low compressed engine not effective- except in CO emissions. just try it out- test the after a gas tank full 97 octane and after a tank full 87 octane.
generally I would recommend the octane the manufacturer says it has to be. It has reasons.
The most people having trouble with their engines because they think they have to crank up a monster truck for a 2 mile ride to the dollar general or moving with the monster from the tj maxx parking lot 300 feet over to the marshall's parking lot.
This is what kills the engines because the engine stays cold, the gas washes in this condition the oil film from the cylinder, the gas is very rich and burns bad with high CO and soot built up and the ethanol in the gas creates with the soot a greasy, gluey film which sits as residue in EGR valves and other exhaust gas touching components. especially the oxygen sensors and catalytic converter are getting killed this way. and this happens no matter what octane the gas has.

but I agree with you when you say that if 87 octane would be the most expensive, the people would think it would be better.

The problem is, that nobody is really interested in explaining why we even have different gas octane assortement.

Btw- I was talking about normal, modern engines- not the high powered sport car engines, where the high octane is even more important, because of high rpm, high pressure and max hp output.
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  #32  
Old 05-17-2013, 11:08 AM
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No offense but I didn't read everything you wrote LOL. I'm pretty sure you're saying the same thing I was just in more depth.

More compression and more ignition advance = need for higher octane(more resistance to detonation).

The stock pcm will retard timing if too low an octane is used(knock sensor will detect it).

That's basically all I was saying.

Higher octane has the potential to produce more power(if used in an engine that will take advantage of the higher octane).
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  #33  
Old 05-18-2013, 07:56 AM
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I believe the 5.7 C/R is 10.75, top choice of compression for this engine is 11.00 to one. In my experience with high performance engines you should always run premium gas with anything above 10.00 to one compression ratio. The only reason why you can get away with 89 oct is the computer and the sensors feeding it info to make the proper changes in timing and air/fuel mix. If our truck had a mechanical electrical system without a computer you would def get ping/ clanking while racing, towing or uphill. You 4.7 guys are only at about 10.00 to one compression so you can run 87 oct. Rule of thumb, higher oct is for higher compression and higher pressure from forced induction. If you have a forged lower end that can take 20 lbs of boost at some point over 14 lbs of boost or so you would have to use fuel higher than 93 oct (race) because of the pressure. If you don't believe me go to Indy Cylinder and check out the 605 street with and without a blower. With a blower you must use race gas because of the pressure. The superstreet 572 you can run 93 or race gas. If you dispute this you can argue with their builders. And btw, these gen 111 hemis can run 93 oct on "almost" 12.00 to one compression because of the quench pad on the heads where as the gen 11's couldn't get much past 11.00 to one. The quench pad sort of directs the flame to ignite in the proper place at the proper time. Less un-spent fuel is wasted as is in the gen 11 hemi heads but correct me if you have a better explanation of it. And then you have your dual plugs to help fire as well. I'm currently on a 91 tune and I run 93 oct, nothing less. There was similar designs like this on the 67 440 and 426 max wedge heads (quench pads). If I was on an 89 tune I would run nothing less than 91 oct because I've seen what could happen at 7000 rpms with not enough oct. Lman is the only one here who's got it right. If you think you know better and your engine can always depend on your sensers to prevent catastrophic failure then go for it, it's your truck. Not saying it will happen, just saying it could. You da man Lman.
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  #34  
Old 05-23-2013, 12:39 PM
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So what happens if I run a 180 stat with 87 octane? will it boost my HP since I'm running COOLER?
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  #35  
Old 05-24-2013, 08:14 AM
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Radio-lman is the only one who is wrong. If you read his statements he says that you don't need higher octane
I say clearly that on a hemi there should be high octane fuel used.
You just repeted what I said... ;-)
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  #36  
Old 05-24-2013, 08:54 AM
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I worked at sunoco oil refinery for 6 years all gas is crap so there ya go lol
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  #37  
Old 05-24-2013, 04:45 PM
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  #38  
Old 05-24-2013, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris65 View Post
Radio-lman is the only one who is wrong. If you read his statements he says that you don't need higher octane
I say clearly that on a hemi there should be high octane fuel used.
You just repeted what I said... ;-)
My bad Cris65...sry. This talk about premium fuel being a waste of money is nonsense anyway. It's not a waste of money, it's a waste of time talking about it. People are going to do what they want to do with their money because it's theirs to spend...right or wrong.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:43 PM
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Book says 87"... Use 87".. Save your $ for beer.
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  #40  
Old 02-21-2014, 11:57 PM
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long live the old thread !
you realize you replied to a 9 month old thread, don't you?
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