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Our Trucks Capacities Vs. The Competition (Payload)

10K views 29 replies 19 participants last post by  Silas-7 
#1 · (Edited)
So there are lots of numbers to know when buying a truck and trailer. I have recently purchased a truck and camping trailer I knew all these numbers but got a little suspicious once seeing the numbers the competition is posting vs the ones on our trucks. Hopefully you all know what these numbers stand for if not google them and it will make a lot more sense. So on RV.net I have seen lots of posts (mainly f150 guys) touting there large payload numbers and it got me thinking. Yes some of them have the larger axle but some do not.

So I have a 2012 Ram 1500 QC Outdoorsman 4x4 with the hemi. I have a gvwr of 6700lbs and both front and rear gawr is 3900lbs. My payload is 1165lbs. Sounds really lame I know but just keep reading and it may make you think differently. So the information I'm posting about other trucks is stuff I've come across and cannot say its 100% true but its what these guys are saying about there own trucks and not others.

Now we all know that Ram has lower payload numbers and it got me thinking why is it so low is our trucks really that much worse. So here goes a little comparison vs a regular 2011 f150 hopefully you can follow.

My truck:
GFAWR=3900
GRAWR=3900
7800lbs
but our actual gvwr is 6700 or 6800 for you guys with crew cabs.

Now lets look at Fords for example. Now this isn't a max payload were they basically throw in a 7 bolt axle its a regular 6 bolt one

<http://www.***************/forums/2009-2013-f-150/437851-2011-owners-please-report-payloads.html>

2011 F150 XLT screw
4X4
5.0
5.5 box
3:55 limited slip
7200# GVWR package
Trailer tow package--not MaxTow
18" wheels
GAWR front 3750
GAWR rear 3850
GVWR 7200
Payload 1438

So his payload is nearly 300lbs more than mine but look at the axle ratings. They are both LOWER. Our trucks have approx 1100lbs loss and the normal f150 has 400lb loss. weird right? If my truck has the same 400lb loss from axle ratings I would have a 7400gvwr and a payload of 1865 lbs :SHOCKED:. I am a member on this sight as well as rv.net and both are great sights and full of people who just want to help and are willing to dedicate there time to your/our questions. But this one has me thinking. What in our trucks makes them have so much more of a safety factor. Is it bc the coils are that soft or is there something else. Does Ram/Dodge just value the well being of the customer and just wants to keep them safe. What ever it is just think about this the next time you overload your truck by 100lbs. As My truck sits it will take 1700lbs to overload the rear axle and that makes me feel good.

Sorry about this going on forever but i've done a lot of reading since getting my camping trailer which is 6500lbs dry and 29.5' long and I feel very comfortable towing it with my RAM 1500.

What do you all think about these numbers? I'm not trying to be a hater against ford and can easily post the same against Chevy. Did this dawn across anyone else who pulls a trailer and thinks about these numbers?
 
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#2 ·
Since none of the manufacturers are using the same rating method it is really all just talk at this point. For me I will most likely never approach the max payload or towing of the Hemi 1500 so I don't worry about it. However I think if Iw as towing "big" loads on a regular basis I would opt for a 2500 or 3500 since this is why they exist. Thank you for the information, I applaud people who use thier brain rather than just take everything for face value.
 
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#4 ·
Please correct me if i am wrong but there is no rating in payload it is what it is, it comes down to the properties and strength of the materials. Towing is where the Rating Method comes in. And as much I hate foreign manufactures my hat is off to Toyota for being the only one to step up to the plate when it comes to that. But yes I see what your talking about. I just never saw anyone compare info like this and thought some may find it interesting!
 
#5 ·
Please correct me if i am wrong but there is no rating in payload it is what it is, it comes down to the properties and strength of the materials. Towing is where the Rating Method comes in. And as much I hate foreign manufactures my hat is off to Toyota for being the only one to step up to the plate when it comes to that. But yes I see what your talking about. I just never saw anyone compare info like this and thought some may find it interesting!

You are correct. In fact even the payload is still just a number as I have personally seen trucks way overloaded and they still performed fine and went on to lead long lives. It is a safety factor, engineering factor, and the all important "lawyer" factor.

The internet has really upped the arguments on this type of thing, it is bench racing at its finest. Not sure 20 years ago there was near as much talk about towing and payload. Unless I towed the max every day I personally would have many criteria more important in my purchase decision. Choose the truck model from the manufacturer of your choice that meets your needs. Two urban cowboys with the mine is bigger than yours, that is where the discussion becomes obnoxious.
 
#3 ·
Also you can look much deeper into Rams Lineup and post on RV.net got me thinking a Ram 3500 Megacab had a payload of something around 2600lbs and they didn't like this as they wanted close to 5000lbs which has come the norm for Chevy and Ford. But the GRAWR was 9300lbs alone and the GVWR was 10,500 according to the post. I just feel like Ram is shooting themselves in the foot and if people looked at it this way they may feel different either bashing us ram guys or realizing that there truck isn't as capable as they thought.
 
#6 ·
Well I just realized I completely contradicted myself. Payload is obviously a rating method as you described and not just based on max weight ratings of axle componets as the difference between the f150 and our trucks. To show another example and I know its not a full size truck but its what I have available and know to be factual information

My work truck
2006 GMC caynon

GFAWR=2753
GRAWR=2896
=5649
GVWR=5150 so a difference of 500lbs, which is very close to the f150 above.

My payload rating is 1403lbs. YES 250lbs more than my full size hemi powered ram 1500.

So this just makes me wonder even more what the weak link is, or is it just the fact that they use a much larger safety factor than the competition.

Many try to go by there max tires, which this is not a very good method is my eyes as my truck came stock with E range tires rated at 3200lbs which give you a total of 12,800 which is as much if not over most dually trucks.
 
#7 · (Edited)
It's just numbers. I now have almost 190,000 miles on my 05 QC 1500. I've towed loads that were probably way over the rating and carried hellacious loads in the bed. How about a cord of green firewood in the bed? Probably over 4,000 lbs and hauled out of the worst woods roads all winter long. Rams are tough! I'd put my Ram up against my brother's 04 F 350 diesel any day of the week, any job, Ram will out haul it. Oh, and look better doing it!! Also tow a 32' fifth wheel travel trailer with ease.
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
I keep seeing people post about the "low" payload of the rams. I just don't get it. My ram has a payload of over 1,600 lb IIRC when I looked. How is that "low" It's a half ton truck (half ton = 1,000 lb, FYI :) )
 
#10 ·
I understand what your saying but if you bought a one ton truck to tow a fifth wheel with then guess what....your not legally going to be able to with that attitude. Trucks have gotten bigger and better every year. Some one ton trucks have payloads north of 3ton=6000lbs. Yes it is a light duty truck and I'm not arguing that point. I was just trying to point out to many that our trucks seem to be much more conservatively rated than others.

Gt I agree that it has a lot to do with the coils. There is no way I could put 1800 lbs in the bed, but I do think I can have 1800lbs with people and gear at times. Now I have the airbags and it doesn't matter bc its always nice and level.
 
#11 ·
I may have misread but I thought the discussion was about half ton trucks (1500's). I'd completely agree if I bought a one ton truck and it couldn't handle 2,000 lb payload I'd be pissed.

In reality, most of our half ton trucks can handle 3/4 ton, which is pretty impressive IMO. And not just handle it, but do so in a good way, not at it's limit. I understand you can't put 1,500 lb in the bed and drive it like you stole it and expect it to handle great, etc. but it gets the job done fine if you drive with some common sense. If you do large loads like this often yeah better off getting the bigger truck.

I have put 1,200+lb in the bed of my truck several times with my cut lower springs(RT springs which IIRC have a capacitiy around 1,200 lbs and I cut 1.5 coils off) and the truck was fine with that weight. It was nearly on the bump stops, but driving with some sense it was fine. I took corners easy and bumps easy and barely could tell there was a load in the bed.

I'd be comfortable putting my max payload on the stock springs and driving in the same manner. When I had the stock springs in and had ~1,000lb in the bed I could pretty much pretend it wasn't even in there, still had plenty of suspension travel left and it handled ok.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Have you stopped to think that maybe they did this on purpose to make sure they pay out less in warranty claims ??

I mean if the average person reads the owners manual and goes by the ratings in there, they'll never break the truck from using it hard, so Dodge has less chance of having to fix it under warranty.

A spring is a spring, if it is rate for the weight, it will hold it, coil or leaf, either one.

Why have a 3750 lb rated front axle and a 3800 lb rated rear axle, and only have the payload listed at 1100 lbs ?

3750+3800=7550
truck weight=5500, leaving 2050 for payload, but they list it as 1100......where'd the other 900 lbs go ??


Build it to hold 2000 lbs, and tell everyone it can only hold 1000 lbs, and you shouldn't have to pay to fix it.




BTW, many times the tire ratings and/or rim rating are the actual limiting factor, not the axles. On my 97 3500 CTD 4x4 dually, the rims were the limiting factor @ 2650 each. The tires would hold 3200 each.
 
#14 ·
BTW, many times the tire ratings and/or rim rating are the actual limiting factor, not the axles. On my 97 3500 CTD 4x4 dually, the rims were the limiting factor @ 2650 each. The tires would hold 3200 each.
The E Rated tires on my 2500 are it's limiting factors. The back axle has a GVWR of 6,000 lbs, I think both tires are roughly 3,050ish?
 
#15 ·
This is something I've been throwing around in my head. I have a 2012 CC that has a 1350 lb payload. I want to buy a toy hauler that has a 1050 tongue weight. You add in 500 lbs with the 4 passengers and I'm 200 over. The truck has a 10,000 tow rating. Trailer is 7000 dry so when loaded it will be close at 9000-9500. Really wish I had gone 2500 but wondering if I should just buy the trailer and maybe upgrade the truck later or buy the right truck first?
 
#16 ·
I find all this odd or I am misunderstanding something. The ram web site says my 13 Ram Tradesman QC 4x2 3:55 gears 4.7L V8 has a max payload of 1658 with a 150 lbs driver so with me in the truck I should have a 1500 lbs payload and I should be able to tow a 6500lbs trailer. Where did all these low numbers come from?
Mick
 
#18 · (Edited)
There's tons of things they look at to determine payload- but that's obvious. Having just freshly come from the Blue Oval camp, I can say one thing without a doubt- the F series are just a heavier built truck- I am not saying better- just heavier. For one example- take a look at the upper and lower control arms- you will see that difference right away. 5 bolt rims vs. 6, axle tubes, leaf vs coil, CVs, frame, everything. That comes at a cost though. The 5.4L in there didn't have enough jam to get out of its own way, and it rode like a bale wagon and handled like a battleship. Tank tough though.

One other thing that I speculate goes into payload ratings- driver experience and perception. Will the average, get-in-start-and-go driver have the facilities to handle the truck when there is an extra heavy load wallowing around back there? Likely not. So they set a breaking point with payload that- IMHO- is the line where the handling of the truck changes enough that the day-to-day driver may not be equipped to compensate for. This is a CYA (cover your ass) move, and it's a smart one.

It's a funny, paper-tiger number to me, but common sense should prevail. For example- my family of 5 weighs in at 846lbs. So, by that number, with all of us in the truck, and a load of food and Christmas presents in the back and all of the drinks and gameboys etc with a tank of fuel, I will likely be within a couple hundred pounds of my door sticker (or close) when we head for the farm for Christmas this year. Following that logic- for the next couple years while my oldest two are still at home, we will bounce over that door sticker by an easy 300-350lbs when my TT is hitched up wet. Yet, I will not be over my GAWR front or rear, GCWR, and I will only be at 61% of my rated tow capacity. I am not saying that I would just starting chucking crap in the truck until it was full and overloaded by 1000lbs! That's insane. Nobody can control that kind of weight long term, and long term it will damage something! This is why I commonly shake my head when I see *any* half ton pulling a 5'er. The pin weight alone will turn your bearings into doughnuts over enough time given that it's all sitting right over the axle.

It's for this very reason I could not justify having a fuel swilling 2500 in my driveway that will only really "work" 6 days a year; just to meet a sticker. With a family of 5, policing that weight is next to impossible. My teenage daughter could destroy that number with just shoes if I let her.

My comments here are not condoning overloading a vehicle and my personal opinion may and likely does run afoul of regulations in many states and a few provinces, but here in Sask for example, we are allowed to weigh 2x GVWR when hooked with this class of vehicle. I guess what I am getting at is, the engineering team certainly didn't design a truck to grenade at 6801lbs GVWR. For example- you have 1100lbs of payload. Your tongue weight is 900lbs. You have your 50lbs dog in with you, and 100lbs of wood in the bed. You encounter a family of four stranded in the middle of nowhere. Do you tell them you can't give them a ride because you only have 50lbs of payload left? Not likely.

Whew... long first post :)
 
#19 · (Edited)
smurfs....best comment I've come across regarding low 1500 payload rating. I've yet to find a real explanation of how GVW is calculated (or axle rating for that matter). While there seems to be evidence Ford is almost flagrant playing the specification game, who really knows? I'm in the same situation - the 1500 I have on order is almost at full GVW with just my family and some gear and will be over with the boat in tow. That said, I can't justify a 2500. And I do know for sure the 1500 will handle 1000 payload better than a minivan which may be rated to carry more.
 
#20 ·
theres a really good video on youtube i actually come across recently talking about this...somehow every year the other manufacturers payload/towing is going up without making any actual changes to the truck. It came out to be that there is no standard they have to meet to put these numbers up so every year they can change them without having to meet a standard. Chrysler right now is the only one that does have a standard they meet and toyota was the only other one to jump on board and say yes with Chrysler on having a standard to meet to put up these numbers. Im sure its not to far out though that all of them will have a standard to meet to put out these numbers so they cant just increase it every year to beat the competition without making any changes to the actual truck.
 
#22 ·
Reliability, durability, liability, and safety are the areas that come to mind when towing or hauling.

Reliability - I hate breakdowns and if you are on the side of the road you can be at risk.

Durability - I want my vehicle to last, and with regular scheduled maintenance, I don't want to be hanging out at my dealer's shop.

Liability - At this stage in my life I have a lot to loose if I end in an accident, injure, kill or maim my family or another's. If we end up in court it can be very expensive, one could loose their life savings and be on the hook for more, not to mention the anguish involved. An overloaded vehicle can certainly be a factor in litigation, particularly if it is deemed a causal factor, such as being unable to stop or swerve to avoid a collision or an overloaded driveline or steering component fails.

Safety - Do you really want to be a test pilot with your vehicle, charting unknown waters that it was never designed for? Manufacturers spend countless hours with teams of engineers evaluating the performance, handling and safety of their vehicles. How much value do you place on the safety of your family and the public?

Sure you can get away with exceeding the manufacturers limitations on occasions, but bearing the above in mind one should endeavor to operate their vehicles with the design limits.
 
#23 ·
I am not sure how one can merely look at the axle load ratings, sum them and then blithely go on their way ignoring the manufacturers maximum GVWR, Tow, Haul, and GCWR.
There is much more to the ratings than the axle specifications. What is the torque rating of the transmission, how about engine cooling, transmission cooling, size and capability of the brakes, shocks, springs, tires, wheels, how does the vehicle handle sway, will it under steer or possible over steer, what is the rating of the chassis rails, the rear bed, attachment points, etc. How fast will the vehicle accelerate, how well does it stop, the distance and tendency for brake fade.
The new SAE standard J2807 defines some limited standards for truck ratings, but only Toyota is currently abiding by them.
Here is a link to a discussion on the subject: http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0912_sae_tow_ratings_finally_pass_sniff_test/viewall.html
 
#24 ·
all i'm pointing out is that it looks like there is a large safety margin. Per manufacture as long as your within awr and gvwr you are legal. So how can you say 400lbs of weight to the front axle of a 1500 truck. Yes you will add weight with people but not that much you'll add more to the rear axle So to say you can come within a 150lbs of max combined axle weight ratings I find that very difficult to do and stay below rawr.

Yes there is a lot more to it but as long as your within gvwr and awr you're fine. So each shock and spring should be capable of holding the max gawr without issues or the awr should be lowered, this goes along with all connected pieces, tires, wheels wheel hubs and studs. With payload rarely does engine cooling or transmission cooler needed. and yes whhile the SAE stadards are defined they themselves are not great, not many people will like to hear their gas engines at 4-5krpms or their diesel wind to 3-4krpms to get up a hill at 30mph.
 
#25 ·
here's a quick question I have never found an answer for:

when you have passenger load- how does this weight transfer across axles? based on the position of the cabin, I would guess about 50/50, but maybe I am way off? Does all the weight transfer to the rear axle?
 
#28 ·
I'm pretty sure RAMS payload ratings are low on the Crew Cab models because of the rear axle location in relation to the bed. If you put any significant load in the box the center of mass is going to be behind the axle and not over or in front of it, which would be ideal. Ford and GM are no better rated if you buy a fully pimped out truck, unless you pay for the payload package in the Ford.

Also, unless you are hauling commercially with your 1500 your chances of being scaled by the dot are virtually zero.
 
#29 ·
Ford and GM are no better rated if you buy a fully pimped out truck, unless you pay for the payload package in the Ford.
This is a good, and unfortunately often ignored, point.
 
#30 ·
I was thinking the same thing when comparing my 14' express crew to the competition. Until it's proven it's just a number. For example: my father in-law owns a 11' GMC Sierra extended cab z71 with the 5.3l flex fuel. It's rated to tow according to gmc.com 6800-9600lb. Being unsure of the gear ratio he has and if he has the max tow package (rated to tow 10,400) I have driven in it while he tows and now am seeing the results. Towing a 2002 Dutchman lite (5000lb) and using a WD hitch the truck is at an immediate squat w/o loading camper or putting anything in bed for payload. The poor engine never got below 3800 RPM and had a sustained "red line" when accelerating. Struggled to maintain a speed of 60mph. Let's say he was at the "minimum" tow rating given his set up. He has since lost a leaf spring (snapped and fell out while driving) on both the driver and passenger side. The weight he was pulling and the end results of what happened to the truck don't lie. I was very gracious and let him use my jack to knock out the remaining pieces of his rear end while sitting on my 14' RAM's tailgate drinking a nice cold beverage with nothing but a smerk!
 
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